What do you guys think bout 2012?

Rackenhammer · Peasant Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 45 Location: NoVa

's all right, Rabid.

Anyhow, I think we're all agreed that predicting the future is troublesome, at best.
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Secluded · Cub Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

Well, there are other theories about the universe radically changing, too.

For instance, right now our universe is expanding. All energy wishes to return from a state of order, which is enthalpy, to a state of disorder, which is entropy. That's why it takes work to use energy, because "using" energy means increasing the amount of enthalpy in the universe. And all that enthalpy naturally tries to return to entropy, and that's why it takes so much effort to keep energy organized.

But, according to the mathematics of it all, the universe will supposedly eventually complete a cycle of sorts, and begin to compress at the same rate that it expanded. All of a sudden, entropy will naturally decrease and enthalpy will naturally increase. That means that the universe will eventually become the exact opposite, in every imaginable way, of what we perceive it as right now.

If that doesn't count as the end of the universe as we know it, I don't know what does.

But I still don't think that'll happen in three years. But we wouldn't even know if it did...

Damn it all.

Rackenhammer · Peasant Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 45 Location: NoVa

If tendencies go from disorder to order, it would show up in emergent patterns. Since human observation naturally is a ttractd to patterns, I'd think it'd be rather obvious to us if the universe suddenly changed like that.

I must admit, I'd never heard of that theory before. Where did you hear it from?
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Peasant: Que? Quis usted?

Er... no hablo espanol, senor.

Secluded · Cub Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

It's in A Brief History of Time.

Well, you wouldn't really "notice" anything, because "noticing" something means taking in entropy and turning it into enthalpy. Thought wouldn't exist in a shrinking universe. I mean, nothing as we can imagine it would exist in the shrinking universe. All of our natural laws revolve around increasing the amount of universal enthalpy and decreasing the amount of natural entropy. It's the second law of thermodynamics.

And supposedly, once the universe has completed its "shrinking" phase, it will start expanding again.

Rackenhammer · Peasant Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 45 Location: NoVa

Wait a minute... how does an artificial increase in enthalpy contradict a natural increase in enthalpy? I've certainly never seen an artificial increase in entropy violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which as I rember, reads that the net amount of entropy in the Universe can never decrease. If the laws were to reverse, that would simply mean that entropy could not increase. I can hardly believe that there would be an instantaneous conversion. There would be time enough for us to notice, if in fact it actually happens.
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All hail the Scion of the Spanish Throne!

Peasant: Que? Quis usted?

Er... no hablo espanol, senor.

Secluded · Cub Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

Well, that's only part of the second law, as is what I said.

You're right, the second law says that the amount of entropy in an isolated system cannot decrease, because without any outside factors, enthalpy naturally turns to entropy over time. By using work, entropy can be converted to enthalpy, but it takes continual work to keep it ordered.

But I worded my "all of our natural laws" sentence the wrong way. I meant that in order to do anything in our universe, work must be applied. Energy must be ordered in order for it to be used, in order for chemical reactions to occur. Everything that is "done" requires entropy to become enthalpy.

And once again, you wouldn't notice anything, because thought would not exist. Human brains aren't gonna stay the same if the basic laws of the universe reverse. Honestly, it would essentially be your death. You wouldn't exist.

Bigfox3 · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject:

I'm surprised you guys haven't asked for the biblical interpretation of events, since eschatology happens to be one of my personal favorite subjects. Let me get back to you guys on Monday, and I'll tell you the title of this book written by a Messianic Jew versed in both Hebrew and Greek that has studied Revelation and the rest of the Bible extensively concerning "The End Times".
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...and then everything exploded and we all lived happily ever after. EDN!!!1110ne DX

Sade · Rogue Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 63

Rackenhammer · Peasant Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 45 Location: NoVa

@Bigfox: I am aware of the Biblical intepretation, it's what I personally believe (though I might point out that opinion isn't unified even there.)

@Sade: I'm not versed enough in math to check the figures Secluded cited (I probably never will be), but you've raised a point. Compression doesn't seem to have any inherent order in it.
Possibly the claim was made by a journalist who didn't quite understand the issues discussed either.
_________________
All hail the Scion of the Spanish Throne!

Peasant: Que? Quis usted?

Er... no hablo espanol, senor.